Topics:

Deciding to blog – three factors to consider: time that you have for writing your intention for the blog the long game versus the short game If you decide to blog, elements to consider of your posts & blog: what to write about how often to write post graphics post links getting traffic to your posts blog template and design additional elements – ads, guests on your blog

And come follow me on Periscope! I’ve been posting videos often, and would love for you to hop on and interact with me, LIVE! Download the free Periscope app, then find me by searching “Diane Sanfilippo.” Replays available after at : Katch.Me



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Build a Badass Business: Episode #7: Websites Part 2 – To Blog or Not to Blog 

Coming to you straight from her basement home office in suburban New Jersey, this is Build a Badass Business with Diane Sanfilippo. Diane is a New York Times bestselling author and began blogging in 2007 to an audience of 2; her mom and one friend from college. Here she is, your host: Diane Sanfilippo.

So in my previous episode, Websites, part 1, I talked about my very first website, but my very first blog actually came many years later, and I was watching an episode of Oprah, and Dr. Oz was on, and he was talking about antioxidants, and blueberries and something about how if we eat certain foods we might be able to prevent cancer. I can’t remember if I’ve talked about that on this business podcast before, but it inspired me to start writing about mindful health. And the name of my blog originally was called mindful health, and it was a blogger site, so it was mindfulhealth.blogspot.com, and I later changed that to balancedbites.blogspot.com before I then moved over to Balanced Bites.

I was originally writing about things I maybe saw on TV, or things that I read in the news, or just kind of saw in passing that I thought were interesting and applicable and relevant to this idea of mindful healthy. And if we just pay a little bit of attention to what we’re doing and what we’re eating, we can actually affect potentially our ability to develop cancer or not. That was a really big motivator to me, getting into this whole health and wellness field, and that was something that, you know there’s a lot of cancer on one side of my family, so it was really motivating to me to find out that, hey, if I eat differently, I might be able to do something about it.

So that was when I first started blogging, and the two people who read it, I believe, at the time were my mom and my friend Stephanie from college. I remember she was commenting on blog posts way back in the day. She’s definitely one of those early adopters, was really into technology, too. I loved that I had one friend who just kind of saw some value in what I was doing. To this day, she’s always been a big fan of mine, so I totally appreciate that. I wanted to get going to talk to you guys about blogging today.

So blogging seems to be a super hot topic amongst new and emerging entrepreneurs, especially in the health coaching or life coaching, nutrition world. It’s also reaching as far as those who provide products and services across almost any arena. So you’ll see folks who are offering products for sale, but there’s also a blog on their website. Or maybe it’s a landscape company, for example, but they’re also putting blog posts up. And it’s definitely relevant and can be applicable to any business, if you’re willing to actually put the time in to creating blog posts.

So I mentioned a few things to consider in part 1 of the series when I was talking about websites, not necessarily about blogs. What I wanted to cover today is a little bit further into it. What I talked about previously was this idea to blog or not to blog. If you’re going to decide about blogging, you want to think about how often to write. You want to be consistent if at all possible in whatever timing you chose. But it also sort of doesn’t matter how often you blog anymore. Because what’s happening with social media right now is that it’s all really a stream. We’re getting blog posts to our readers via email, or social media, whether it’s shared on Facebook, Instagram, etc. So there really isn’t the same time sensitivity to every post that you write, depending on the nature of the topic.

So of course, if you’re writing something that perhaps is relevant to news, or maybe it’s a rebuttal to something you’ve seen out there that’s going around in your community. Maybe there’s a new product you want to talk about, etc. That’s when the timing can be relevant. But, for a lot of the information that you might share on a blog, the timing isn’t as relevant as it once was.

I’ve got three things that you might want to consider when you’re deciding whether or not you’re going to blog. And the first thing is time. How much time do you want to dedicate to writing blog posts? Now, this is assuming that you’ll be the one writing them, because at this stage, you probably will. Later on, you may or not be actually writing your own blog posts. You may be creating content in other ways that somebody helps you put into a blog post for example, or perhaps in a situation that I’m in, I have a podcast that goes out every week that’s health oriented. I think a lot of you listen to the Balanced Bites podcast. And we have a blog post that goes up every week that is a transcript of that podcast. So that’s a way that I can share posts on the blog, but those posts are actually text that I’ve spoken, it’s not necessarily something I sat down to write. So that’s one way of getting content out there.

You really want to think about how much time you have to put into it. If you want to start blogging, you have to know that it takes a minimum of 20-30 minutes to write a blog post, depending on what kind of content you’re getting into. I’ve had blog posts that have taken me hours, a day, for a week or more, because they were a little bit heavier in some science, or perhaps I wanted to get more links in there, wanted to do more research, etc. There may be a topic that you’re just interested in learning about, and so in order for you to write about it, you need to do more of your own research first. So it really kinds of depends.

You might put a blog post up that simply tells someone, hey there’s a new event coming up, and that becomes a blog posts. So there’s a lot of different formats that you can use. I’ll probably cover that again in more depth in another episode going forward, but I think that for now, just think about the time that you have. If you really can’t carve out a minimum of, I’d say an hour a week, even if that happens to be in two 30-minute increments. I think 30 minutes is the minimum you need to dedicate, but a solid hour is probably a good amount of time to dedicate to something, and that’s once a week. You might even find that 20-30 minutes a day to feed into one or maybe two posts a week, that might be something that works for you. But you really do need to dedicate the time to it. And if you don’t see yourself having that time, it might not be a good idea for you to blog.

Now, one other approach that you can take, and I know a lot of people who do this. It’s not something that’s ever worked for me, because I’m a lot more impulsive and sort of, I wouldn’t say reactionary, but I just kind of follow my gut. I try to plan things, but I don’t plan as much as I’d like to. I have this picture in my head of planning out blog posts for months on end, and it just never works. It’s just not my personality. But some people will sit down for an entire day, perhaps once a month, and write four to eight blog posts in that one day. And if that’s something that you feel comfortable doing, it’s a fantastic approach. You can schedule those out, and that’s something that I’ll touch on a little bit more in just a minute.

The second thing I want you to consider when you decide whether or not to blog, is your intention. What is the goal of your blog as the entire site, or the blog post? Are you expecting a direct response? Or are you willing to write for a few months on end, possibly longer, without ever seeing any real or direct “response”. And so what I mean here is this. You may find that initially, 2 people read your blog. As I mentioned that was me, it could be your mother and a friend, and that’s it. And heck, most of us would be lucky at that, but I think in this world, where maybe everybody and their mother has a blog, there’s a lot of undue pressure that folks put on themselves to see some sort of magical traffic appear on their blog. Clicking on posts, etc., all of that. The truth is, it takes time and it takes connections to make that happen. I’m going to talk about that in just another moment.

You have to have it in your head, what is the point of this blog for you? Is it an outlet? Is it something that you’ve got topics on your mind, you’ve got content that you want to talk about, and you’re just putting it out there? I think honestly when it comes down to it, if you think you want to start a blog today to generate income tomorrow, or generate income even next month, I think that that’s a little bit misguided. It takes a lot of time. And sure, there can be some bloggers who might be seemingly an overnight success, but the truth is there’s a lot more time, energy, and hours behind the scenes that you never saw. So if there’s somebody whose blog all of a sudden is really popular, and you never knew about it for the last few years, that doesn’t mean they haven’t been blogging all that time, it just means that perhaps they hit a critical mass. I think it’s important to keep that in mind.

Ok, so to that end, point three that I have for you guys on whether or not you decide to blog. And this one I kind of took from an inspiration from Gary V, Gary Vaynerchuk talks about this a lot. He always says he’s in it for the long game. I love that. There’s just so many things about what he talks about and teaches that I love. We’re not all alike, but I definitely would say check out his podcast if you are in your business a little bit more, maybe not totally new and getting started. I think he’s a great person to listen to for someone who’s a little bit more established. He talks about the long game; he says I’m in it for the long game, and I love that, because that’s kind of how I am.

I definitely am interested in seeing a direct response from things that I post, and I think we all kind of are, but I think a lot of people get too addicted to the instant response, and the instant gratification of writing something and just clicking share. Clicking publish, and seeing what comes back from that. The truth is, your blog posts create an archive of content that’s searchable, and that creates a huge foundation for everything that you’re doing going forward. So if you look at blogging as a short game, you’re probably going to be really disappointed, and I think it’s really important to think about it as the long game.

Another few things to consider here are that, when you’re blogging, what you’re doing is developing a deeper connection to your new readers in your content. So, here’s a good example of that. I wrote a blog post years ago on fats and oils; and actually, I wrote maybe 3 blog posts on that topic. I think I wrote one just about fats; which to eat and which to ditch. One about canola oil specifically, and I know I’ve wrote one on cooking fats and which to chose. So later, when I wrote Practical Paleo, I actually used a lot of the information that I collected and researched to write those posts to inform the master of fats and oils and cooking fats charts that went into the book. That’s the long game. So, even at the time, of course I was excited about the traffic, but I knew that the process and the journey was important to me. I just wanted to share this information, and I wasn’t necessarily thinking, ok, this is definitely going to go into a book one day. I don’t even think I had that on my mind at that point. But, I knew that just creating this content would never be for nothing. It’s never for nothing. You always learn something, somebody will learn something from it, and if at the very least it’s you, that’s totally fine.

The other thing that I did, when I created those blog posts that I was talking about on fats and oils, I created some infographics. And I’m not going to talk too much about infographics today; I’m going to talk about graphics in just a minute. Now, I see tons of these charts going around. I consider most of them sort of knock offs, in a way, because I know amongst our community of sort of paleo, grain free bloggers, I was really the first one to do this, where I would put something into a chart, a one-page guide. I’m not the first one to ever do something like that, but I know in our community and the way that I frame things and sort of the, which to use for cold uses, which to use for hot, etc., it’s something that I did very, very early on. And within this community, that definitely became something that built a lot of the trust between myself and people who are out there reading information. I’m going to talk a little bit more about the know, like, and trust factor here.

For many people, blogging may not necessarily be the absolute best route, but I do think it’s a fantastic outlet for most people, and it’s a place to flesh out your thinking about different topics that are related to your line of work. This is especially true if you’re in a service industry, so people can get to know you, know how you think, and what your take is on various topics. This can be a big one to feed into that know, like, and trust factor.

What that is, people need to get to know you, they need to decide that they like you, and they need to decide that they can trust you. Those things kind of all feed into you having not only a successful business, but for people to just be able to listen to what you’re saying, and really feel a good positive connection. Because you can be out there, and you can have a business that grows really quickly, but if people start to get to know you, and they don’t like you, and they don’t trust you, or perhaps if they never get to know you at all, and you have a business that is very much based on your personality and services that you deliver, you do need to let little pieces of who you are show through and shine through. So I do think those things are important.

The know, like, and trust factor, without some of the basis for getting to know you, you’re really just another random person out there doing whatever it is that you’re doing. I think you’ll notice that a lot of your favorite bloggers, or a lot of your favorite entrepreneurs that you listen to and follow, you have decided that you know, like, and trust them. It may be something that you weren’t even aware of why, or how. Or maybe you realize there was a moment in time; there’s a reason why you’re listening to this podcast, and you’ve decided to trust me. You see what I’ve done with my business, and you’re going to learn more about that as I share on the podcast, but you already know me through whatever I’ve been doing through the health and nutrition field, and hopefully you like me, because you’ve decided to spend an additional amount of time with me to listen to this podcast. But I think that’s stuff that you guys need to really think about so that you remember what it is that you’re doing. Because, on the other side of whatever you’re putting out there is another human being. And so you really need to remember that that’s who you’re connecting to with your content.

All that being said, blogging may or may not be your outlet of choice. I’ll talk a bit about things like podcasting and maybe video media in future episodes. I absolutely love podcasting. I find it to be a better outlet for me than writing, but it’s certainly not for everyone, and it’s very time consuming despite how easy or fast it might seem. So after all of that, if you decided you do want to blog, let’s talk about a few points of interest, and ways to approach blogging.

The first one is what to write about. You guys have asked me, how do I know what to write about? I want to start a blog, I just don’t even know where to begin. If you’re at a total loss here, just think about answering frequently asked questions that you get in the form of blog posts. This was a huge strategy that I had early on. It was an organic thing for me. I didn’t realize that I was doing it, I didn’t plan on it, but I literally just got tired of typing the same response to questions over and over again. So what I did was I actually started either copying and pasting some of the long responses I would write, and then would just elaborate on them in a blog post, and maybe taking more time to fill in the blanks and fill in every angle.

If the person is asking about one thing, and one scenario, I would fill in what are some other scenarios, what are kind of the pluses and minuses. Obviously, with my blog being called Balanced Bites, I was always trying to give a very balanced approach. So, even if my resulting opinion on something was X, I’m still trying to show Y and Z. If you have this going on, and you want to choose this, here are your options, etc. So that’s something I would take into consideration, whether you want to be presenting something totally one sided, and your opinion is very strong and that’s what you want to share on the blog, that’s totally fine. Or, if showing things that are a little bit more balanced, and telling people what your opinion is, but then giving them any other facts that they can use to inform their decision, that’s up to you. That’s a different approach.

Other ideas for what to write about; you can definitely write some short how-to’s or tutorials that can help solve different problems that people are having. If you have a service based business, you can also talk about products that you love, why you love them, etc. You can talk about thinks that bug you. I’ve definitely written about commercials that really got on my nerves, or ad campaigns for different products.

I would definitely caution you against presenting any information that can come across as very judgmental. I think it’s really important to be as diplomatic as possible, and if you’re going to build up some sort of sass, or you’re going to talk about a product that you just think is unhealthy, or you just don’t like it, or whatever the case may be in your industry. I think it’s important not to make people feel badly for decisions they may have made to buy that product or eat that product, or whatever it is. You don’t ever want to write a blog post that’s basically making someone feel really badly when they read it. You don’t want someone to feel judged, or like they’ve done something wrong. What you want to do is present information, and then explain your take on it from there.

The next thing is how often to write. This one really varies, as I’ve mentioned before, I think+ it’s important to know how sustainable it will be for you depending on how often you’ve made a decision to write. I think the regular delivery of content is no longer required in the exact way it maybe was in the past. I definitely don’t have any sort of regular schedule when it comes to blogging, but I think that writing once a week is plenty, and posting to your blog once a week just so people know that you’re still there, that things are fresh. When somebody hits your website, it’s not like there’s a post from 3 months ago, and they don’t even know if you’re still in business.

So if you’re going to blog, having some sort of regularity with it is important. I think more than once a week, you might put people on information overload. It really depends on the types of posts that you have. And if you can write more at once, and sort of schedule them in advance, that’s fine. And as I’ve mentioned before, if the mood strikes, you want to say more about something, you want to write a second post that week, or you have something else to tell people, then that might be the time to add a second or third post in that week.

Sometimes what I’ve done in the past, we typically have the podcast blog post go up on Thursdays. Sometimes on a Tuesday, I’ll have a recipe post go up. And if I’ve got a lot more I need to talk about that week, then maybe I’ll space it out to a Saturday, or something like that. But what I’ve found in the last year or so, is that it kind of doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter when I post those things, because unless it’s something very, very time sensitive, the way that I share it with people is what matters almost even more. So the regularity that you have I think is a lot more of a bearing on just traffic that comes to your site just to make sure that people know things are fresh, that you’re still there, and if it means taking a post that you’ve written a year ago and updating it so that you’ll have fresh content, that’s totally fine too. That’s kind of the approach I would take. I know some bloggers write everyday, which is totally fine. It’s all about preference for you.

The third thing to consider are the graphics for your post. This is not necessarily in a perfect order, but I think this is probably the order that I would consider things in, what you’re going to write about, how often, then the graphics. Unless you’re experienced with graphics, I always, always, always recommend that you hire someone. I am a graphic designer before I ever became something else, and I think that it’s just important that, even if it’s not an expensive top tier designer, which you absolutely don’t need from the get go, I think it’s just important that you recognize that there’s a way and a finesse to the way graphics are created.

And that doesn’t mean that you can’t learn something, or that you can’t have a designer create something that’s sort of a template for you, that’s also an option. Perhaps you have a formula for the way that your header graphics work, and you just want a designer to help you create a little template. That’s something that a designer can easily do, that can tell you what font to use. You can get some kind of either adobe Photoshop or a basic Photoshop; I think elements is the name of the program, so that you can go in an edit those graphics. But I think it’s important that you at least have something designed professionally from the get go.

You can easily find help places like craigslist, your own Facebook network. It could be students out there in the community; you put out a call for someone to help with graphic design, and 9 times out of 10, you think that you don’t know anybody, and your little network will know somebody. I think that’s one thing that you can kind of put the call out for, just even on your own little network on Facebook. Even if you don’t have a business page yet.

There also are online services that you can use, companies like ODesk and I know I used to use, I don’t even remember the name of the company. I’ll share it with you guys if I can think of it at some point, but there was a company that I used for a little while where there just happened to be a service that was a virtual assistant type of thing, and we had a formula for the type of graphics that I needed, and they just delivered them for several weeks on end when I was in between having a designer on my team and not, and I really needed that support. I just didn’t have the time and energy to dedicate to it myself. I think once you have a template, if you have a designer create a template for you, then you can kind of plug things in, plug an image in, change the text, etc., and you’ll be good to go.

The next thing you need to pay attention to in your blog post are links. Now, you want to link to other relevant sites and articles as an effort to gain some goodwill, and I think that’s something, as you start blogging, you’ll see people that link back, or it will show up as a ping back in your comments if you’re on WordPress. I’m not sure what it will show up as on other platforms. But it’s just nice seeing other people linking back to your posts.

This will happen a lot as you start to write more about topics that other people find interesting, and they write about a similar topic, they’ll link back to you. I just think it’s important to take note of anybody who links to you, because they’re helping to get the word out about your website, and so if you start out writing a post and you’re kind of just sharing your 2 cents on something, but you think there are two other blog posts out there by bloggers that you follow who’ve written about it really well, take the opportunity in your post, keep it short, and then put your links in there. Or even if your blog post is a lot longer.

You’ll notice if you go back through some of the archives on BalancedBites.com, when I talk about different slightly more scientific topics where I am not a scientist, I’m a nutritionist, and I’m sharing this information, I’m going to link to other people who may be a little bit more qualified than I am to talk about it, to send people to more information. And I think that there’s just goodwill in that. I think it’s valid to do that as often as possible.

What you’ll notice as well in time is that the more websites that link back to you, the more relevant your site becomes. This can have an impact on something like your Alexa ranking. That’s the ranking of all websites out there in general, how much traffic does your site get, and how many other sites link back to you. So it’s important to go ahead and offer those in, because then other people will be more likely to link back to you.

The other thing you want to link to in blog posts now; I don’t have a by state set up to kind of check out which states can do this and which states can’t. I know that Colorado cannot, but if you have any desire to link to products ,whether that’s books or supplements or electronic equipment, or sports equipment; literally anything. I highly, highly recommend that everybody opens up an Amazon associates account. It’s the number one affiliated account I would recommend for everyone. There are lots of other affiliate programs that I can talk about in another episode, but everybody should have an Amazon associates account at the very least. With an Amazon associates account, you can be linking to products from day 1, as soon as your account gets approved, and you can start to earn some money for the fact that you’re referring people to buy them on Amazon.

The fifth thing to consider here is driving traffic to your post. Now, things that used to drive traffic to blog posts, Facebook, don’t necessarily drive it anymore. In order to get traffic, there are a handful of tactics you can employ. First off, posting to your Facebook page can definitely work. You can also post to your personal Facebook page if your friends won’t be too annoyed. Posting to a Facebook business page, it can be fine, it may or may not get as much reach as it would have in the past. You can also post to a Facebook group, if you’re a member of a group or you start a group for the service or product that you’re offering. You can post a graphic on Instagram, and link your profile link back to that blog post. This is something I don’t think a lot of people consider, but in your profile on Instagram, you can have a website there, and that’s the only place currently on Instagram that we have a live link. You’ll notice anywhere on a caption you can’t just click to link to something, other than a hashtag. So if you want people to go your website to a specific blog post, you can change the link in your Instagram profile ID to link to that blog post.

You can also tweet, obviously, with that link. Don’t forget whatever hashtags you want to use. You can offer guest posts on other people’s blogs with a similar audience to the one that you have. Maybe you want to get some exposure; maybe there are some bigger bloggers out there who would like to offer a guest post for you. I get a lot of people who contact me; I don’t really share a lot of guest posts on my blog, it’s just not something that I’ve done because I really don’t have a lot of time to curate that, and just kind of make sure that the content is what I want. But there are tons of bloggers who do it, especially recipe bloggers. I don’t know if there are a lot of bloggers in different communities that do it, I’m sure there are , so be on the lookout for that kind of thing so that you can post some guest blogs. I’ve done it, I had a post on RobbWolf.com many years ago on adrenal fatigue, and that was definitely something that really helped people get to know me.

There are also some more organic things you can do, like simply helping people in forums. So back in the day, I was helping folks out on MarksDailyApple.com or RobbWolf.com, on his forums. I don’t think a lot of people remember this, but very early on, I was a moderator on Robb Wolf’s forum. This was one way that I gained a lot of traction with people, and developed the know, like, and trust factor, because +I was answering their questions, and posting links back to articles I had written with more information. So I was just genuinely helping people, answering their questions, responding and giving them that support, and that really helps to build things up for you.

So we’re almost rounding out this list, and it might surprise you that number 6 on my list are the template and design of your blog. I’ve listed this one almost last, because while I think it’s critical to have an aesthetic that reflects you and who you are and what you do, I think most of you stop at this point. So you get caught up in a design and a template that you literally never start. It’s a start stopper. I don’t know if that’s something that you guys have really thought of before, but just don’t get caught up in this. Get through the first elements, and get started with blogging. Then find a designer and get the template adjusted to your needs. That content will fit any template. So if you start blogging in WordPress, the blog post will convert over to any template and any format that they might create for you, or any way to fit that in.

You can also even retrofit graphics for your blog post as needed. So even if you have 2 to 10 to 20 blog posts out there that don’t have graphics that kind of match the look and feel that you’re going for, you can either retrofit them, or just move on. If I look back at 2 years ago the graphics on my website, they don’t look like the graphics do today, and that’s fine. If I decide to update a blog post and republish it, then I’ll update the graphics. Otherwise it’s no big deal. Don’t let it be a start stopper for you.

Now, it’s really easy for most designers to retrofit your graphics, it’s not a big deal, and it’s just more important to start and get the content right, and get started with loading it. It doesn’t have to be perfectly designed from day 1.

Some other elements to consider that I don’t think are critical to getting started would be ads. Will you run them? Will they be sponsored by companies that are specific, or will you run them from an ad network. I don’t have any ads on my website, so this isn’t a topic I’m an expert on. I’ll think about bringing someone onto the show in the near future who I would consider to be an expert on this, but it’s something that you may want to consider. I do have sponsors for the Balanced Bites podcast, and that really just helps to cover the cost that we incur in creating it; the time cost for my time, and Liz’s time, and the transcript to get done, for the production to be done, to the blog post. Everything. It’s a lot more work than anybody thinks about, so we have sponsors to help cover that cost. I don’t have any ads on my website, I only have links or maybe affiliate links. So it’s a totally different thing.

Guest post on your site. I mentioned guest posting for other people; but once your site starts to get a little bit more traffic, or maybe you just make some friends in the community that you’re in, and you want to think about having guest posts on your site. Something to consider, do you want them, if so, can you let people know a format of what you want them to deliver in terms of the content. For example, let them know the size or dimensions of the graphics that you want to use. Each blog is a little bit different, so while the basics are pretty similar in terms of the width, height, etc., knowing the exact pixel size can help you get graphics delivered upfront that fit your website from other bloggers. So it’s just some stuff to think about.

Alright, I’m closing in on 30 minutes here, and I want to wrap things up. I want to talk about future topics. I want to hear from you. A lot of you have been awesome about commenting on the Facebook group, but I’ve got a bunch of topics here I’m going to throw out, and I’d love for you to come on to the Facebook group and throw a comment on the thread for me, or when I post to Instagram and talk about this episode, definitely comment to me and let me know what you want to hear about next. I’ve got probably a bit more on websites coming up next, but I’ve got more topics here. List building and email marketing, naming your business, finding your tribe or your people, a lot of folks have asked about, how do I find my customers or people who want to read about what I’m writing about. The nitty gritty of getting started with your business. So things like the name, and filing paperwork, and accountants, bank accounts and trademarks, etc. Which of these topics is most interesting to you? I definitely want to hear from you, so holler at me, give me your feedback.

That’s all I’ve got for you guys today. Don’t forget to subscribe in iTunes so you don’t miss an episode. And drop me a review to let me know what’s speaking to you from the show. If you want to get in on the conversation, and you haven’t yet joined the group already on Facebook, head on over there and join the Build a Badass Business group. I share insights and tips regularly, as well as answer your questions right there on the page.

Do work that you love, and hustle to make your business grow like your life depends on it, because it does. Thanks for listening, and I’ll catch you on the next episode.