Episode #64: Anti-Hustle Culture & Human Design

In today’s episode, we’re going to talk about anti-hustle culture as it relates to our human design types. We’ll finish up this episode with a weekly actionable tip!

Cassy Joy: And we’ve done similar works, but the path that we took to get there was unique unto ourselves. And we are ourselves. We were fully ourselves, which I think is part of the reason why we have seen success. Because we’ve leaned into what feels right in terms of our own tempo. Is that fair?

Diane Sanfilippo: Love it.

Welcome to Driven; a show about business, life, and wellness from two confident, curious women who are pulling back the curtain on what it’s like being an entrepreneur. Each week, join hosts Diane Sanfilippo and Cassy Joy Garcia talk about being your best, showing up for your dreams, and kicking self-doubt to the curb.

Diane is a business whisperer, best-selling author, and plant-hobbyist based in San Francisco. Cassy Joy is the founder of www.FedandFit.com, best-selling author, and casserole enthusiast. She calls San Antonio, Texas, home.


  1. What’s on my plate [1:06]
  2. Shop Talk: Anti-hustle culture and Human Design [19:08]
  3. Tip of The Week: Reflection on energy in work [50:04]

Cassy Joy: In today’s episode, we’re going to talk about anti-hustle culture as it relates to our Human Design types.

1.  What’s on my plate [1:06]

Diane Sanfilippo: What’s on My Plate. In this segment, we talk about what’s happening in our businesses, and in our lives for the week. Cassy, it feels like I just spoke to you, but a moment ago.

Cassy Joy: Oh, but so much has happened. I’m pumping now. {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Cassy Joy: I feel the need to call that out every time I’m doing it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Just in case; in case you hear a slight sound. I really don’t hear it. It’s the magic of technology, on both ends. That microphone working beautifully, and the very, very quiet pump.

Cassy Joy: It’s amazing. It’s those little mobile pumps. This is not sponsored. I paid lots of monies to the company called Elvie for this pump. And man, I am a fan. So, the first update I have is; I posted about this on Instagram the other day. And people reminded me of this reference from TV; you’ve watched the show Parks and Rec, right?

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Cassy Joy: Ok. I’m going to get back to Parks and Rec. After baby. After COVID. Not after. We’re still in COVID. But, baby-COVID period. Right? Newborn. Being pregnant. And then book. And then getting a book turned in. It was like these major, major events in my life and going on with the world. I kept rescheduling things. Whenever anybody wanted to schedule something with me, I was like; let’s schedule that for October. We’ll schedule it; because October felt like it was never going to get here. {laughs} So I scheduled everything for October.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} And nothing is happening in October at that point.

Cassy Joy: Of course. Nothing is happening. And I was like; October is where all the time lives.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Cassy Joy: All the time lives in October. It’s this magical place on the calendar. And I {laughing} so now October is here, and I’m like, so overwhelmed with all of these meetings. And I am meeting them, and I’m rescheduling things if I need to. Which, of course, we’ll talk about today a little bit. But it feels like that episode of Parks and Rec where, it’s in season 2. April is Ron Swanson’s secretary, or assistant. And she’s telling him. She’s like; remember how you love me so much as your assistant because I never schedule anything on your calendar? And he’s like, yes. She’s like; well, that’s because I put everything on your calendar for March 31st, because I thought that day didn’t exist. {laughs} And then March 31st gets here, and he has 93 meetings {laughing}.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Cassy Joy: And that’s how I feel right now. {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Oh my goodness.

Cassy Joy: I’m like; oh, I didn’t appreciate it while it was good! I mean, it was a different kind of busy, right? Baby. Building out an office. Book. All of these things. But now all of a sudden it’s like all of these appointments caught up with me. So that’s where I’m at right now. October is my March 31st.

Diane Sanfilippo: Whoof!

Cassy Joy: And then my other update is; this is just kind of something that I’m noodling on. And if you have any words of wisdom, I’m all ears. I am really kind of struggling right now with just what to bring people on Instagram in terms of content. So during my maternity leave, I invited members of the Fed and Fit team. I did two things. Number one; I kind of broke off Cassy Joy Garcia personal updates, pictures of babies, pictures of puppies, the things that are more personal that if you just came to Fed and Fit because you bought Cook Once, Eat All Week and you just want recipes on how to use shredded chicken, that I’m not showing up as this person in your stories, and you’re like; why is this person narrating her dog’s life? I don’t understand it. You know?

To give that a place to live and breathe.

Diane Sanfilippo: Who would say such a thing?

Cassy Joy: There were people, Diane.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I know.

Cassy Joy: We don’t want to know them. {laughs} I’m just kidding. {laughing} And so to give that a place to live and breathe, so I created a personal Instagram, Cassy Joy Garcia. And then Fed and Fit really became where we share all of this content that we’ve spent our time lovingly caring for and developing and polishing and presenting. So the Fed and Fit team, I invited them, the three ladies that I get to work with, Amber, Lauren, and Brandy, to do these recipe demos while I was gone to kind of help share and carry on that experience of cooking in the kitchen and making it feel very approachable.

And now that I’m back, and now that we’re in the kitchen, we’re in this weird transition between what was that, where everybody on the team was seen very regularly and where we’re going, where everybody will be seen regularly again. But it’s going to be via produced video content. Like an actual videographer is going to film the clips, and have B roll, and edit it, and it’s going to be really fun. Right? So we’re in this weird interim. And I just; I’m not quite sure how to bridge those two together. Because I’m trying to show up every week in a cooking demo on Instagram. So they’re seeing somebody, me.

I’m in this feeling of, like the comments and the messages that we get are so conflicting on a constant base. And this is maybe a good opportunity to remind you; we remind you of this a lot, or I do. If you like something that a creator is doing, and you really appreciate the work, every once in a while. Not all the time, but every once in a while, maybe take the time to send them a note to tell them as such. Like, hey I appreciate your work. This is really helpful. This is really wonderful. Because at least in my world, 9 out of 10 comments I get are people trying to direct me elsewhere or otherwise.

And that’s a whole other conversation. But it’s like; they wanted more videos of me. Right? And now I’m here doing more videos, and now it’s; well, we miss the team.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Cassy Joy: So we want more videos of the team.

Diane Sanfilippo: Of course.

Cassy Joy: I mean, I can manage the community, right? Trust me. I’ve got this. We’ve got a plan. But I’m personally struggling with; what do I do in this interim? Because getting video; polished, produced video up and running is slow. It’s slower. It feels slower than I had anticipated. So I’m just kind of at a loss.

Diane Sanfilippo: You are looking for feedback?

Cassy Joy: Bring it. I’m always looking for feedback from you.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think this is an important conversation. because sometimes; I was talking about boundaries on social media. Which, I talk about all the time. I talked about boundaries before anybody else was comfortable talking about boundaries. People got real mad at me.

Cassy Joy: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Do you remember? Years ago.

Cassy Joy: I do.

Diane Sanfilippo: Anyway. Oh boy. Anyway. Here’s what I think. I think that there are a couple of options. One is, you take your own advice and you go ugly early and continue to have the team make the videos, just on their phone the way they did at home but maybe in the kitchen, until you get the real filming on the calendar.

But I think one thing I’ve noticed, for myself and my team, whenever I have something new that we’re adding to the mix. Because essentially this is new. This is a new thing you’re adding on top of other work.

Cassy Joy: Right.

Diane Sanfilippo: And while you were gone, it took the place of other work because you were sort of in a holding pattern. But people can’t just add to their plate.

Cassy Joy: Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: They have to reappropriate time. So I think that it basically; if somebody is going to reappropriate time, but you don’t have the videographer scheduled, then they do it in a messy format, “messy.” I personally prefer that type of content anyway. It feels more native to me. But I understand and I see the obvious depth of value in actual produced content. As well as the ease of not being the one filming it, and also giving more people jobs, and all of those things that come with it. And being able to film a real format video that then can be repurposed for Instagram.

Cassy Joy: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: So that it can live elsewhere. Because I do think that’s critical; that it has a life somewhere other than Instagram. If you’re making real-deal content. But my thought is; if people are going to do it where it’s like; hey, this is all set up. So and so set it up. Why don’t you film the demo today. Or I’ll film it, or whatever. But just making sure that that person’s plate is clear enough for it that day. Or it just gets on the calendar; again, either messy or. Ok, starting in January, we have these things scheduled. So how do we shift our time? And in the meantime, guess what you could do? Reshare demos you’ve already done because those went down the river months ago.

Cassy Joy: That’s true.

Diane Sanfilippo: So, if they’re not saved. But I think you guys filmed them, maybe as videos, or whatever. So just reshare content that’s already been shared. I think, on the topic of anti-hustle, I think we all need to be repurposing content a lot more. Because there is; I don’t know the terms for this in the world of psychology. But I find that it builds affinity in me when I see something I’ve seen before.

I mean, take Michelle Tam for example. I mean, you know, we love Michelle Tam at Nom Nom Paleo, just as a person. I think she’s awesome. How many times have you seen her make crackling chicken? How many?

Cassy Joy: A lot.

Diane Sanfilippo: You could never count.

Cassy Joy: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: But you love it every time. It makes you feel like; she really believes in that recipe. Which she does. And she loves it and she makes it a lot. So why don’t you take those top recipes that people love, and they seem to make, and reshare that. I mean, people didn’t all see it. Out of 120 something, or 250 however many thousands of people who follow, not everybody saw it. So share something again. Nobody needs to do more work. It’s already been done.

Cassy Joy: That’s great advice. I love that so much. Because there was this demo that Lauren Moore, who works at Fed and Fit did, where she made this jalapeno margarita. I don’t know if you saw it on Instagram stories.

Diane Sanfilippo: I saw it. It was awesome.

Cassy Joy: Oh my; it was priceless. It was so priceless. Lauren is honing her kitchen skills.

Diane Sanfilippo: It was adorable.

Cassy Joy: It was adorable! {laughing} She is an adorable human, and I know she’s listening to this. So hi, Lauren. She’s just this adorable human, and she knows no other way than to portray herself truly. What she’s truly thinking and feeling and doing. That is; what you see is what you get. Nothing is contrived when it comes to Lauren.

And she just did this wonderful demo. This makes me want to reshare it, because I’ve heard from so many people how much they loved that. So that’s really helpful advice. I’m going to recirculate old Instagram demos, because those are saved somewhere. And maybe invite, while we’re in the new pretty kitchen space, maybe ask one team member a week to do a demo. And we’ll schedule it out so that it does work in the flow of their other responsibilities. But I think that’s great. Thanks Diane.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. You’re welcome.

Cassy Joy: What do you have going on? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I’ll send you a bill.

Cassy Joy: Yeah!

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s always my joke.

Cassy Joy: Totally. I just have a hard time seeing the forest through the trees. I can give, I feel like, very helpful thoughts and ideas when it’s somebody else’s business. But for some reason, those things, when it’s your own life. It’s like;

Diane Sanfilippo: You would have given me this exact advice.

Cassy Joy: I probably would have.

Diane Sanfilippo: You would have.

Cassy Joy: But it never ever occurred to me for myself.

Diane Sanfilippo: Allow me to give you permission not to do more work.

Cassy Joy: I will take it. {laughing} What do you have going on?

Diane Sanfilippo: So, news over here. This episode will be airing; I always have to check myself on when the episode is airing, because we schedule launches and then I’m look; oh, am I saying this at the wrong time?

Cassy Joy: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: So as of the airing of this episode. Which the original air date is presumably November 2, 2020. We will have launched three new granolas, which is so exciting! Gluten-free granolas. For those of you who are paleo eaters, or grain free eaters, I know this is not a health nutrition podcast but I know I have lots of carry-over folks. I am considering working on a paleo granola. I don’t personally eat that, so it’s never first. The thing that I don’t eat won’t come first, because what I talk about the most is what y’all buy the most. So I need to always follow my own instincts on that. But, I hear you, for those of you asking.

But we have three flavors. One is; well, the Diane’s Magic Blend is now coming back fully as a Balanced Bites product. It will not be a cobranded product. So we will have that. These will all be in the clear bags with stickers, as I told everyone before. I didn’t want to wait another 6 to 8 weeks to get real bags printed, so this was the interim. This was the go ugly early. But it will still be cute, even though it’s the “ugly” version.

So Diane’s Magic Blend is one. The second one is a coconut almond chocolate. And we actually adjusted the formula that I had originally come up with to add a little more cacao butter versus coconut oil so that it would cluster more, because that’s really what everybody loves. And that one currently is featuring Hu chocolate as the chocolate. They’re semi-melted. I think they get mixed in right after it’s baked, so they partially melt but they don’t just melt all throughout. So you can hunt for them. Love.

And then, the third flavor is a salted caramel apple. And it’s an apple granola; it has a really crispy texture. It has nice clusters and a crispy texture. And we formulated that with apple butter so that we could get that really apple-y flavor all throughout. We don’t use any flavorings. But I was trying to think; what would get you that apple flavor? because just little pieces of apple, it’s not very apple-y. And then, I thought about apple sauce, and it’s like; eh, it’s just kind of too wet. But apple butter is that really concentrated apple flavor. So it has a slightly orange look to it; the color of apple butter or pumpkin butter.

I’m not the biggest pumpkin spice person. So y’all who want pumpkin spice, it’s never going to be first. Because I just don’t love it that much, ok? {laughs}

Cassy Joy: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: I just don’t. It’s fine. I am not a hater. I do like a good pumpkin bread; like molasses and the spice, I’m into it. It’s just not my first pick flavor profile. I really wanted an apple; a little bit of salt in there. It’s just really, really yummy.

So we’ve got these three, and they’re all just super unique in their flavor profiles so everyone can find their favorite. I’m sure we’ll have a bundle on the site where you can get all three of them. And the cool thing is, we also were able to make it so that the amount of granola in the bag, in the co-label thing we did in the past it was an 8 ounce bag, and going forward all of them will be 10 ounces. So it’s actually more. And they’ll be the same price that they were when we had our collaboration. So that’s a great thing we’re able to kind of work that with the quantity that we’re creating and the ingredients and all that; still amazing, super top quality ingredients. So yay.

And they are all organic. I think we probably; I think we maybe didn’t do an organic certification on it, just to save time. This is an interesting thing about the way the food industry works and all of that. But you can have organic ingredients, and it might not say certified organic on the front just because somebody didn’t go through the time and the process of submitting to whatever the local certifying agency is. So, that is something that we’ll do when I go to print the real bags. But in order to just move it quickly and get it out; but all the ingredients are organic. The only ingredient that you can’t call organic is salt. So, anyway. But they are all organic. We just didn’t push it through the certification process yet.

So that’s coming. And it’s exciting. And just more products and what fun.

Cassy Joy: I can’t wait. I’m so excited.

Diane Sanfilippo: Here we are. Thank you.

Cassy Joy: Please keep making delicious things.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Cassy Joy: It brings my life so much joy.

Diane Sanfilippo: I’m so glad. I love it. I mean, creating food products; it’s not easy. And we were talking about this before the show. The margins on food products are not huge. So for those of you who might be like; ugh. You look at the price; I mean, listen. So many of these things; make them at home if you feel like you don’t have the dollars for it but you want to spend the time and do it less expensively. Please, by all means. You know; my Diane’s Magic Blend; my peanut butter granola recipe is on the blog. You can make it that way. I am perfectly happy for you to do that.

But in order to produce something that’s high quality, that’s going to be to the standards I want. Not the least expensive, but you know what? It is for sure fun. And very gratifying to actually hold a thing in your hand. And these are my babies! {laughs}

Cassy Joy: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: They’re all my babies. I mean, I have to fill that store up somehow, right? I can’t just sell 15, 19 jars of spices. I need something else in there. So three flavors of granola. So excited.

2.  Shop Talk: Anti-hustle culture and Human Design [19:08]

Cassy Joy: Shop Talk. In this segment, we’re going to talk about anti-hustle culture as it relates to our Human Design types. So if you listened to the previous podcast episode, Diane and I talked about anti-hustle culture. And I had to bite my tongue the whole time to not spoil the content for this episode. It’s probably going to be a slightly shorter conversation. But we can’t help but talk about that there’s no one-size fits all.

Diane Sanfilippo: Right.

Cassy Joy: When deciding whether or not to hustle or not. Or whether or not it’s right for you.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And this was kind of the epiphany that Cassy had and told me about. Was like; all these people were talking about how if you’re just hustling, you’re going to burn out. And you shouldn’t do this, and you shouldn’t do that, and you should slow down, and all of that. And while that’s fine, and fair, and we were talking about it in the last episode in the context of being the business owners, where we need to really manage the time and energy and focus of other people, not just ourselves, this is really talking much more personally about how this works for us.

And we are going to be doing some more exploration of Human Design as it relates to entrepreneurship in coming episodes. Because we talked about the Enneagram and entrepreneurship. We talked about the Four Tendencies. I just think these personality and sort of energy frameworks are really interesting, and it helps us all to know ourselves better. And I think that ultimately, that’s what helps us to be just better as people and as business owners, entrepreneurs, etc.

Cassy Joy: Yes. Absolutely.

Diane Sanfilippo: So tell them what you told me.

Cassy Joy: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: About how you were seeing this whole thing, and you were like; mm, I don’t know if that fits for me.

Cassy Joy: it didn’t feel right. So, I’ve grown up a little bit since then, and I can appreciate anti-hustle for all the reasons that we talked about in the prior episode. And I love where it can be applied. However, me personally; it was a couple of years ago. It really went mainstream. This “Don’t hustle!” It’s going to burn you out. It’s not going to do what you think it’s going to do. Everyone should stop working so hard. And I felt so wrong. Because I wasn’t hustling for the sake of hustling. That’s not what I was doing at all. But I work very quickly. And I can do a lot of things in a day. I can work very long hours. And that actually compounds my energy. I feed off of more energy and I actually don’t feel depleted.

I can burn out if I’m doing something that’s not in line with my personality type; for example, speaking about another personality framework, Gretchen Rubin’s the Four Tendencies. I, like Diane, happen to be a Rebel. And pursuing constructs of expectations on me that are not aligned with me being a Rebel, for example, people wanting to check in with me on a very, very regular basis. That will burn me out. I will feel burn out from that. But working in a way that I enjoy working, I don’t feel.

And I remember watching all of this “don’t hustle” stuff from all of these people who are sitting on their pile of success, telling the world, “Don’t hustle, you’re going to burn out. It’s all bad. Don’t listen to anybody who is working hard, it’s all a lie.” And I was like; what?! I’m not a lie! I feel like this is how I was built to work this way.

And it wasn’t until my Human Design reading {laughs} that I was like; it all clicked for me. Right? Because I did get to a place over the last several years where I thought; eh. Good for you, not for me. Right? I did get to that place eventually on the anti-hustle culture. Like; yes, good for you. I think I understand what you’re trying to educate people on, and there’s a place for that to land in a very healthy way. But also not everybody needs to work at the same pace. There’s not a metronome in the world that every single human being needs to sync up with in terms of their work output.

My Human Design is a Manifesting Generator. And according to the Human Design readings that I’ve had; I’ve now had two. Essentially, my pace of work is one of the fastest of all of the five Human Designs. And this being a Manifesting Generator, I come up with these things and then I want to go and do them. And it’s like this cycle; this circle. And it feeds itself. I come up with ideas, I do the thing, and it just fuels and fans the fire even more. And it makes me feel like I’m really living out my purpose in such a really wonderful way.

And I always joke; today, Diane, is such a slam packed day of things to do. And in between these things, I sat down and I told one of my colleagues, Brandi; I said, “Oh my gosh. I realize that this is a really, really, really busy, busy day. And I feel so clicked in, and so aligned with what it is that I want to do in the world. I’m better at the things that I’m doing. I’m more efficient. I feel like I’m more empathetic. It’s who I am.

Diane Sanfilippo: I love it.

Cassy Joy: So if it doesn’t fit, it doesn’t fit! {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think that; something in a recent reading of my Human Design chart. So I’m a Manifestor. And we have a really different way that our energy flows than a Manifesting Generator.

So for people who have not heard about Human Design; we talked about it on a past episode. I don’t have the episode number sticky right now; maybe Cassy can look for it while I’m chattering away here. But Generators are the ones who; they build energy from doing. From working. And Manifestors are really more of the spark. And a Manifesting Generator is a bit of a hybrid.

So, as a Manifestor, the way I operate; I mean, Cassy and I have this in common where the ideas never end. I very much; and this is something that, when I’ve had these readings I’m like; oh my goodness. Yes, thank you for explaining what I’ve felt my whole life and wondered why.

Here’s a description; this is, I’m reading this off a screen. There are a bunch of different websites with descriptions of what Manifestors are like. But for those of you who have maybe come in contact with me from the outside, I think this is especially true. Like, when you don’t have an intimate close connection with people, here’s what it says. This is from Align-Mentality.com. It says; “Manifestors are designed to push people out of the way. We repel other people emotionally as well as physically. Although essential to our design, this tends to distance us from other people. It’s common for Manifestors to experience profound feelings of loneliness.” Ok.

I’m going to keep going from another one. Because this is really the part about the work, this is from GeneticMatrix.com. You guys; this is a very woo framework. But we feel that it is accurate, because we’re like; yup. All of these descriptions. And more in depth than just these high level types. But the Manifestor; it says “Manifestors are near 9% of the population. The Manifestor derives its name from the ability to Manifest freely and correctly without reference to anyone else. They can do this because they have at least one Motor Center,” ok, blah, blah.

When I read that, that to me is the summation of the fact that I do not crowd source. I do not ask for people’s opinions. That doesn’t mean I’m not listening, or taking information from what people are saying. It just means that I’m not waiting for you to ask me for something to say; this is what I’m going to make and this is what I’m going to do. I’m just doing to do it, and then I’m going to tell you about it.

But interestingly, and we’ll get to the energy part. Interestingly, that energy; when I don’t tell people what I’m doing, it’s really jarring for people. So I always have to let people around me know; this is what I’m doing, this is what I’m up to. I have to constantly tell people what I’m doing in order to maintain and manage this energy type. I have to constantly inform. Just, let other people know.

So, to that end. I have found, as I mentioned in our last episode, when I’m in the flow of things I love to do, I can have a good amount of energy. But I need to sprint and then rest. I’ve known this for a long time. I’ve definitely identified it in myself. And if I go back to; I can identify these sparks of moments when I was working in alignment and out of alignment with the way that my energy flows. So writing Practical Paleo, writing books, is always out of alignment for me. Energetically. It’s a compressed time frame. There’s a deadline. It’s just; it’s so painful physically to operate on that kind of a schedule for me. And to have so many consistent deadlines. It’s just; there’s nothing I hate more. I love the outcome. I love the result of it. But that process is physically actually painful for me.

I have a photo from after writing Practical Paleo, which was the hardest thing I ever did. That book; the first time it was 432 pages. So my first book was 432 pages. It’s a behemoth. I was so adrenally depleted; between just physically pushing so hard and to this point, working so out of alignment with the way that my energy actually works. I would end up working 11 p.m. to 2 a.m. because I did have an energy spurt, or I was drinking coffee to support that, or whatever. So I did really burn out.

But that doesn’t mean I couldn’t work hard. It just means; man, if I could get a certain timeline, where then I could say; ok, I’ve got this whole day. This is why I love when there’s nothing on the calendar. Because I’m like; I’m going to see how my energy feels that day and I will do whatever I feel like I can do. Sometimes it’s a lot and sometimes it’s a little.

So Cassy and I are totally opposite in this way, where she will thrive on this hour by hour, or nearly hour by hourly scheduling, that time blocking idea. Here’s what I will do at this time. For me, that is not it. That is; I don’t know. You’re handcuffing me doing that. Like, you will not get the best out of me to do that.

So, for me, managing my energy. Looking back; I would teach seminars, traveling the country teaching nutrition seminars. I would teach two seminars back to back. Now listen; I think youth plays into this a little bit. When you’re younger, I think you can masquerade as a Generator. I think that youthful energy, for many of us, will hide how we feel good. You know? So let’s check in when you’re 42 and see. We’ll see. You will probably still feel good doing the same things, because you are a Manifesting Generator, right? But for me, at 42; I’m like, you know what? After these two episodes, I will lie down. After recording these, I will rest. Because this is a high level of energy output. It’s my; I’m on at 100%.

So back when I was in my early to mid-30s teaching seminars, I would teach two seminars back to back. But then I would come home; I wasn’t really working a ton during the week. And I kind of ended up constructing my own flow where it was these two intense days. Either it was a full day or a half day seminar. I would drive between them. I mean, who did I think I was? I would drive from D.C. to Wilmington on the East Coast, teach a seminar Saturday, drive down Sunday morning, teach the next one or maybe the night before and teach the next one, and fly back that night or the next day.

But then, the point is, I would basically rest between. I wouldn’t try and teach five in a row. Same thing now; we’ve done this. Maybe we did at most three or four nights in a row of book signings. And then we would have a day or two off. Because I cannot keep going. I need to replenish. Even right after the event, I’m like; I am done. Shut it down. I can’t socialize with people. I can’t put on the show of being this extrovert that I’m really; I don’t know that I’m really extroverted. Do you know what I mean? I have to give the energy, then I need to hold on. Reel it in. And regain that power from something else that is not doing that same work.

Cassy Joy: That makes a lot of sense. You know what’s funny; I don’t know if this is a Manifesting Generator thing, but I will take breaks from different kinds of work like that. Batch my work, if you will. But I need a total change of scenery in order to keep the fire stoked at a pretty hot heat that I really enjoy working within.

But for example, I can do events. I can do videos. I can do videos three days in a row, and then I want three days to content write and to brainstorm and dream. And I’m still generating things, but I kind of need this cycle of different kinds of activities. I have found really helps me. It’s not taking time; actually not working and closing my computer, it actually creates this. It’s actually a problem for me. It’s hard for me to get back into activity when I have taken a significant amount…

Diane Sanfilippo: The inertia.

Cassy Joy: Yes. Overcoming the inertia. That’s the word.

Diane Sanfilippo: I can see it on the tip of your tongue.

Cassy Joy: {laughing} Yes. That’s really difficult for me. So I take breaks. It probably looks very similar. And what I’m doing in the off time is just working on other projects that I have. It’s like I have 17 projects; and I’m sure you do this, also. But I have 17 projects going on, and I just need to touch them. I need to touch them all on different days. But that’s really interesting.

I was curious, and I looked it up. 32% of the world’s population apparently are Manifesting Generators. So a much higher percentage of us. And the majority of those, from what I understand, are actually Generators who manifest.

Diane Sanfilippo: Hmm.

Cassy Joy: Which I believe I am. And it’s just very interesting to me. The difference between a Generator and a Manifesting Generator; this is from GeneticMatrix.com. Is that the Manifesting Generator design to move to initiation very quickly after responding. So what that means is; and this very accurately describes how I move through the world and how I build business. Is I respond to what’s out there. And I’ve talked about this previously on an episode; I couldn’t find the title. I did search through our archives.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Cassy Joy: But that might have been something that we talked about in an update. But I work best when I’m responding to a need of my audience. And then I can double down and I can come up with ideas. It’s almost like I love being a problem solver for other folks, and then working very hard to give them the best possible answer.

Diane Sanfilippo: I think that’s so interesting. Because it’s like you landed there naturally. And then this is an affirmation of that, and a way to kind of double down on that. And I landed in this place naturally, where I repel a lot of people until they get a little; {laughs} I mean, it is a fire. So, you see it from afar, and you’re like; that’s dangerous. But you get closer, and you’re like; oh, that’s actually really warm. I’m going to stay here. But if you get too close.

Cassy Joy: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: In the wrong way, you’re going to get burned. I mean, we know that is such a real analogy for what it’s like to be around me. I think. I mean, I’m aware of it. That’s why I feel like; I always tread so lightly with myself in the way that I do things. Because I’m like; this is a fire.

So this is another little word about Manifestors to kind of tack on to what you were saying about waiting for that invitation. Manifestors are the one type that we do not wait for invitations. {laughs} I just laugh every time I hear things like that.

Cassy Joy: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: It says; these are the trailblazers who are here to create movements, whether they intentionally try to or not. Manifesting energy in Human Design simply means they don’t need to wait for collaboration from the universe in order to act. It’s an impulsive energy not driven by anything but the divine expressing itself through them. A big part of living correctly as a Manifestor is cherishing and honoring those impulses, because they’re rare and special.

I mean, literally watching you in that office. It was a; like a…

Cassy Joy: Compulsion.

Diane Sanfilippo: It was a compulsion; I see it. I felt it physically. And if I ignored that and didn’t move forward and say; I need a space. I see this. It’s like; it’s a weird thing, where I think it’s different from that invitation. It’s a sign, and then a gut response. I have to experience the world, and then have a gut response. And I have to listen the first time. If I don’t listen the first time, and then I start to think, it doesn’t work. And I heard that in my reading, that’s the right way to follow that energy.

But along the lines of this whole; what do we do about hustle. I do think when I have felt really in alignment is in this combination, as I mentioned in the last episode, of a hustle and a flow. It’s this; give it all, and then recharge it. And that is also where I get the space to be creative. Is in those flow moments. And then that hustle is taking action and really igniting. Taking that spark of that gut thing.

I mean; I have so many things to say about it. But in the reading that I had, this is going to be really funny to hear. But this second reading I had, part of the expression was; you’re not meant to work. {laughs} And there was more, but it was so funny because I was like; I know this.

Cassy Joy: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: I am not the work horse. But I am meant to ignite and have the spark and delegate. There could not be a more truer expression of how things happen in my company. For years I fought the fact that I felt like I wish more people around me were sort of creative forces. Like; man. {laughs} I know this is going to sound weird, but it’s like; why doesn’t everybody have more ideas all the time.

And then I’m like; do we really need more ideas all the time? Is that what we actually need? No. What we actually need is someone to keep catching them as they fall out of my head.

Cassy Joy: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: And run with them. And execute and be the Projector and plan it out, and be the Generator and get it done. Because we all know I will not carry this thing through the end, by myself. I cannot do that. We saw me do a podcast for 54 episodes, but when I had a cohost for Balanced Bites, it was 400 episodes. Now with you we’re at 63, whatever we’re at. So it’s like; I cannot both light the spark and add the kindling. I can’t do it. It’s not in my energy type.

So I think this is really interesting stuff to know. Because this was the other thing; so many self-help books are like; “Just do it! You’re a badass!” Whatever the expression is, right? And I was like; well, obviously, Manifestors are writing these books. And this does not work for 90% of the population. So 90% of the population reads it, and maybe feels inspired. But then ultimately is out of alignment with that process.

Cassy Joy: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: This is also why, Cassy, whenever people ask me about self-help, entrepreneurship books, it’s not an ego thing. Ok. I don’t read those books. Because that would be somebody else telling me the way to be. And I’m like; I’m already compelled to do things without somebody having to tell me how to do it. So that doesn’t mean I don’t listen or learn from some of these things. We know I love Brene Brown. Learning about the anatomy of trust, and all that. But other entrepreneurs saying; here’s how to do something. I’m like; I do not need that.

Again, it has nothing to do with me not thinking it’s valuable. It’s just; like you said; good for you. Not for me. So as we’re talking on this show. This is, I think, the reason why I also really struggled to land on this idea years ago. I was talking about trying to write a book for entrepreneurs. Maybe one day I still will, right? Because I was like; there are multiple types of entrepreneurs. Not everybody is going to be like me. And I feel like that’s what people are sold. Like; “here’s how I did it and you can do it too.” I’m like; no you can’t. Because you’re you. And that’s not a bad thing.

Cassy Joy: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: All these things feed into it. And I think the best people leading businesses identify how unique and different we all are. And leading our people requires knowing that we cannot and should not expect everyone that we’re leading to operate the way that we do because we will fail if that’s what we expect.

Cassy Joy: Absolutely. Or operate the same as each other.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mmm. Hmm-mm.

Cassy Joy: You know. And I think that that is something that I’m trying to be very intentional about. Recognizing the gifts and flow, unique flow, maybe needs of team members. And taking my time to get to know them and get to know them in this work. But where do they actually thrive? How do they actually thrive?

And I want to make sure I don’t forget, but I think it was Amy Poehler; I should have quoted her earlier, that said, “Good for you, not for me.” It was either Amy Poehler or Tina Fey. And it was speaking about parenting things.

Diane Sanfilippo: Hmm. Could have been either.

Cassy Joy: {laughs} Could have been either one. But yeah, I think that’s really interesting. And we’re having this conversation to let y’all know. Diane and I are very hard workers. I would say that we probably categorize ourselves as such. We’re very motivated people. And also, I think we do work hard because we’re tapped in and aligned with things that we enjoy that I think; or at least me, I feel like I was placed here to do. So that just fuels this inherit inner energy to want to just do. Because I feel like this is why I was here. I’m meant to be here for a reason. And when I do more of this work, it affirms that feeling even more.

So I just think it’s important to; how do I avoid burnout is a question that I’ve gotten. How do you do so much and not feel burnt out? It’s because I do build boundaries. I do build bumpers in my day. There are times when I close the computer, having children, and a partner at home, and dogs. That forces me to disconnect from my work. If I were living by myself of this personality type, I might have to come up with a different kind of bumper and barrier around my day to be able to just take a step away from my computer screens. That’s one way that I probably would install some sort of a burn out protection.

But the way my life is set up right now, it’s inherently leads me away from burn out. If anything, I’m not as much as I think I could right now.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Cassy Joy: {laughs} Right?

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And I think; so along these lines, just to wrap up what I was also saying about my particular energy. The idea that I “work hard”. For me, working hard means actually working and doing less. But allowing the time and space to have those ideas that come that I can listen to. If I’m stuck in a grind of actually doing too much, that is not me really following my energy flow in the right way.

Cassy Joy: that makes sense.

Diane Sanfilippo: People are like; oh, but you’re really busy. I’m like; I’m actually not.

Cassy Joy: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I actually am very unscheduled. There’s very little on my calendar. And that is by design. Because if I want myself to be able to continue to pull this train forward, I cannot put things on my calendar. Because them I’m stuck in the doing, and I’m not igniting enough. So what’s happened during this time. Now, by the end of this episode being launched, we will have. Actually, this year we will have launched 10 products this year. During a time when a lot of people are slowing down. And that’s because I could slow down the churn and actually spark the way I’m supposed to.

So, I actually aim to not do that much. But be able to follow my energy when it tells me. Like; hey. Feeling good. This idea is here. Go with it. And I know that sounds like an untamed toddler. It sounds like a bouncing around the room, and; oh, now she fell asleep.

Cassy Joy: {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: You know what I mean? But that’s actually how my energy feels. So, I just think that being super self aware and being a good entrepreneur and being a good steward of my own energy means understanding that it might be a little bit erratic, but that’s what I have to harness. And actually attempting to do less will; wait for it. Will actually be more productive for me because more will get done. I’m just not doing it.

Cassy Joy: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: I know that sounds wild, but that’s why. When people are like; oh my gosh, you have all these people that work with you. I’m like; I can’t get it done. So I have to. And also, that allows me to keep moving forward and not be fearful about; how will we keep doing this? There’s no shortage of spark. I just need to make sure that there are cars behind me on this train that are going to keep things going. Keep those chugga-chugga. {laughs}

Cassy Joy: {laughs} It makes a lot of sense.

Diane Sanfilippo: Does it make sense?

Cassy Joy: It does, it makes a lot of sense. And what comes to mind while you were talking is; just back to this analogy of the metronome. I think that you get to choose your own pace of work. And there is something very wise. It doesn’t have to be via Human Design; though, if you’re curious, there’s a lot that maybe can be learned. I honestly entered into my Human Design somewhat skeptical. And my friend who did my first reading for me, he was like; none of this may land. And that’s ok. But use it if it works for you. And I was like; whoa! 99.9% of it landed.

Oh gosh, I got off on a tangent. But the point of this is; when it comes to the pace at which you work. I just want to add a giant asterisk over the anti-hustle culture mission that; you get to choose your pace of work. And don’t let a trending hashtag keep you from really feeling fully realized in your pace of work and what works for you.

Like Diane and I are very similar in a lot of ways; and this is a way that we’re very, very different. And yet, you could look at our resumes, and we’ve done similar works. But the path that we took to get there was unique unto ourselves. And we are ourselves. Right? We were fully ourselves. Which I think is part of the reason why we have seen success. Because we’ve leaned into what feels right in terms of our own tempo. Is that fair?

Diane Sanfilippo: Love it. That’s perfect. If you’re like; all that anti-hustle. But I feel really good. I’m going to do that.

Cassy Joy: {laughing} Yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: And it’s not about what I achieve as a result. Because of course, somebody working hard and moving quickly and if things are of high quality, then you will have certain achievements. But how does that feel? You know, that’s really the metric. How did it feel.

Cassy Joy: Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: Mmm, good.

Cassy Joy: Mmmm, good. {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

3. Tip of The Week: Reflection on energy in work [50:04]

Cassy Joy: Tip of The Week! In this segment, we give you one tip that you can take action on this week to move your business or life forward.

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. This week, what I want you to do is think about two different times in your life. I want you to think about a time when you felt that you were full of energy, or that you were really working in alignment with what, just from your gut, seemed like the right thing for you. And then when you weren’t.

So here’s an example. When I have had clock punching jobs in an office, I consistently felt fully out of alignment. I was so tired, I just wanted to sleep at my desk all the time. And that was just not it for me. Interestingly, working retail back when I did, when I had these kind of haphazard shifts all over the place; 6 a.m. to 11 a.m., whatever. I actually felt great. I had energy. And yes, I was enjoying the work. But I think that energy flow was just totally different.

So I want you to dig in and think about it. Go as far back as you need to. If you’re like; I do not remember the last time I felt like I was in a flow. Or I felt like I wasn’t combatting this whole; I’m tired. I’m not energized by my work, etc. And really look into that and examine it. And see if maybe you identify with this idea of; wow, maybe the pace that you’re going at is actually not fast enough to make you feel good. Or maybe you’re trying to get more work cranked out, but maybe you’re a Manifestor and you’re like; actually this is not the position I need to be in.

And the last note I have is; I want to encourage those of you who are not the Generators of the world who are either a Manifestor or a Manifesting Generator to be hiring people sooner than later. Because you need help to get things done. And I want to encourage those of you who are Generators and maybe Projectors to not feel badly if you don’t want to run the company. Don’t feel badly. That doesn’t mean you can’t, if you do and you feel good with it. But if you’re like; for some reason, just being the visionary and having the ideas is not me. Don’t feel badly. It’s ok. We’re just all different. Ok. That’s my tip.

Cassy Joy: I love it.

Diane Sanfilippo: That’s it for Driven this week. If you liked this episode, be sure to subscribe in Apple podcast, on Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @TheDrivenPodcast. Cassy is @CassyJoyGarcia as well as @FedandFit and I am @DianeSanfilippo as well as @BalancedBites.

Tune in next week for another brand new episode.