Episode #47: Why you’re not converting on social media.

In today’s episode, we’re going to chat about why you’re not converting on social media, then we’ll wrap up the episode with an actionable tip of the week.

Diane Sanfilippo: You have to remember that the people you’re talking to are just normal people who don’t want to be blindsided by being presented by something to buy. It’s a relationship that you’re nurturing. You don’t want someone to blindside you trying to sell something, but you would be interested because you follow them because you know them, you like them, for whatever reason. You are interested in their life.

Welcome to Driven; a show about business, life, and wellness from two confident, curious women who are pulling back the curtain on what it’s like being an entrepreneur. Each week, join hosts Diane Sanfilippo and Cassy Joy Garcia talk about being your best, showing up for your dreams, and kicking self-doubt to the curb.

Diane is a business whisperer, best-selling author, and plant-hobbyist based in San Francisco. Cassy Joy is the founder of www.FedandFit.com, best-selling author, and casserole enthusiast. She calls San Antonio, Texas, home.

Diane Sanfilippo: In today’s episode, we’re going to chat about why you’re not converting on social media.


  1. What’s on my plate [1:09]
  2. Shop Talk: Converting on Social Media [9:53]
  3. The “soft” right hook [21:22]
  4. Listener Question: Balancing feed with stories [34:18]
  5. Tip of The Week: Share your life [43:46]

1.  What’s on my plate [1:09]

Diane Sanfilippo: What’s on My Plate. In this segment, we talk about what’s happening in our businesses, and in our lives this week. Cassy, what’s going on? Do you want to tell them what was just going on?

Cassy Joy: {laughs} Well, what was just going on is I was recording a podcast with Diane, nursing a baby at the same time {laughs}.

Diane Sanfilippo: You were trying. You were really trying to fully make it work.

Cassy Joy: We were. And it was not happening. Because every time I would talk, Bishop also wanted to talk. But, things are good. We are, you know, living the dream!

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}

Cassy Joy: Life with two girls. Also, this dream feels a lot like a circus. But it’s sweet. This is my first time being alone with my daughters. Austin, my husband, is out of town. He’s back in town by the time this airs. He was gone for just about three days. And it just made me really, really appreciate my partner. Because he; I mean, there’s so much I think I take for granted when he’s here. {laughs}

But it’s been good. And if anything, it’s actually instilled another layer of confidence of myself as a mom. I’m not doing a perfect job. There’s definitely too much screen time. And my daughter missed a nap and I didn’t push it too hard yesterday, because I just needed to sit. And even with all of those things that on paper could look like, maybe; I don’t know. There’s this constant battle of; could I be doing a little bit more? Or is it better for everybody just to take a chill pill? You know.

And even with that, doing it by myself, it just still gives me more confidence as a mom. So it’s been a good season. By season I mean three days.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} But I’m sure that feels like a long time. Much like the last three months have felt like three years.

Cassy Joy: Yes, it does. It feels a little bit like a lifetime. And at 4:45 this morning, when I was trying to cuddle both girls, who were wide awake. I was lying there thinking; I hope my husband is getting very restorative sleep. {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Cassy Joy: Because I have not ever pumped and been like; you do the midnight feeding. But I think I’m going to do that when he comes home tonight. Anyway, that’s what’s going on in the personal life.

On the business front, aside from organizing our office kitchen studio, two of my team members were there today measuring cabinets and drawers for all of our utensils. I’m going to go shop at Target and Container Store.

Diane Sanfilippo: So fun!

Cassy Joy: I know! I’m so excited. Just figuring out how to outfit it. I told the girls; I was like, y’all, green light on all things nerdy and very, very organized. Because I want label makers on things. Let’s go all out.

So aside from that, we are also beginning talks, internally, our team, something that we’ve been wanting to do for a while. We’re going to bring you Cook Once, which is book two of my Cook Once, Eat All Week, which will continue as a theme you’ll see in coming publications. But we’re actually going to translate that into an online presence that will be more consumable at the ready. So sort of like a program, but you can also participate as you like. I’m trying to be very vague, and I’m probably being too vague. {laughs} Without giving it all away.

Diane Sanfilippo: But something that’s accessible that’s beyond or expanding upon what’s in the book, and people can get on the internet.

Cassy Joy: Yes. Very well put. Thank you, Diane. Good bullet! {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} We were chatting before we started recording how I’ll just talk and talk and talk, and then Cassy puts a nice bow on it. And she’s like; here’s what you just said in three tidy bullet points. And I’m like; oh, that sounds really good. I said some good things there. {laughs}

Cassy Joy: {laughing} Exactly. So that’s what’s going on. What do you have going on?

Diane Sanfilippo: I love that. So, a couple of things. One, our new summer menu for Balanced Bites meals is out. It officially launched out last week. So, by the time this airs. I actually think will be the beginning of the shipments for those meals. So really exciting. We had five brand new meals hit the menu, and three meals that had been in the rotation in the past came back. So this is the first time that we are brining back some meals that people who have been with us for a long time have had before. And they’re really excited because our sloppy joe chili was a really popular dish before, but I love the butternut cocoa chili. I had to just finally make a decision to rotate it. Anyway, these are the internal emotional battles of certain dishes, you know.

But it’s been really fun going through the development process on new recipes. We have some fun stuff coming up. I’m not going to give too much information, but I spoke to a couple of friends. And I’m sure I’ll talk to you about this in the future {laughs}, as well. About doing some recipe collaborations in the future. So, I think it will be really fun. I have two friends who are cookbook authors/bloggers who are going to be potentially contributing some recipes that we will develop into meals. And we’ll see how long they’re on the menu. They’ll probably be on the menu, and then maybe come back. It just always depends on how popular they are and how much people love them. But I’m really excited about that.

And then our new spice blends. We had those three brand new ones. I know you’re loving Super Trifecta on your eggs.

Cassy Joy: I love it.

Diane Sanfilippo: Which is so fun. I mean, I just {laughs} I’m so tickled.

Cassy Joy: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} That was my office ladies podcast reference. But I love that. That one, Super Trifecta, and Super Onion had sold out really quickly. Because I think I talked about this before, but I’m just trying to figure out how to inventory plan. This is not a skill that I have. It’s not a muscle that I’ve ever worked before, so I’m really working on that. And because I personally use Super Garlic Pizza the most, I went much deeper on how many of those I was getting. Just because I know people tend to buy the stuff that I use more. So the other two sold out really, really quickly.

Which frankly, it’s fun to sell something out, and at the same time to sell it out too quickly to me is a little; I don’t know. It’s a little obnoxious. Like, it definitely seems like poor planning. To sell out within two or three weeks is cool. To sell out in less than two weeks; I was kind of like; oh, I didn’t do a good job of planning that. I just don’t want to disappoint people who were just kind of waiting, and thinking about it.

Anyway. It was a little bit of a miss for me. But upside, everyone is loving it. And the other upside is I have really wonderful copacker partner that I work with on these blends. So we’re able to get more back in stock really quickly. So we should have those mid-July. So that’s really exciting. And I’m really happy about that. And then we’ll see. I’m sure at least one of them will hit our regular line and continue. Maybe all of them will, if people still enjoy all of them equally. But we just wanted to do a smaller run to start out.

And then, another collaboration that we’re working on. I’m not going to give all the details yet, but another fun food collaboration that will actually end up releasing this summer. So I think it’s going to end up releasing the first week of August. Just if everything goes on the timeline that we expect. And I post a little teaser about this on my Instagram today, so today is July 1st that we’re recording. And I’m letting people guess what it could be. What is the collaboration, and who am I collaboration with? I think it will be really exciting to see how that comes together. I feel like it’s really fun to do that.

Cassy Joy: Mm-hm.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. So, a bunch of collabs.

Cassy Joy: I love it!

Diane Sanfilippo: I feel like such a; something. I don’t know. {laughs} Such an influencer.

Cassy Joy: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: It’s like; this person or brand X, this person or brand. You know? Like the Beautycounter Sephora thing. It’s like, Beautycounter X Sephora. Ok. We will put some tags on ours. Balanced Bites X whatever.

Cassy Joy: I love it.

Diane Sanfilippo: That just seems official to me.

Cassy Joy: {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: I told you how some time last year my mom asked me if I was an influencer. Did I tell you that?

Cassy Joy: No!

Diane Sanfilippo: In the kitchen, in the house I grew up in, she’s like, “Are you an… influencer? Are you one of those?” {laughs} Like, she just doesn’t really know what it means.

Cassy Joy: Oh my goodness!

Diane Sanfilippo: And then also was like, “Is that what you are? What are you?” {laughs} It was funny.

Cassy Joy: Oh. I love her. She is one of the most wonderful people.

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} She is so cute.

Cassy Joy: I really adore her.

Diane Sanfilippo: She adores you as well.

Cassy Joy: That’s so sweet.

Diane Sanfilippo: Who doesn’t? So.

Cassy Joy: {laughs} Oh man.

2.  Shop Talk: Converting on Social Media [9:53]

Cassy Joy: Shop Talk. In this segment, we discuss topics related to business and entrepreneurship that are on our minds and yours. This week we’re going to talk about why you are not converting on social media.

Diane Sanfilippo: Hot topic.

Cassy Joy: Hot topic!

Diane Sanfilippo: I kind of want to sing it like Hot Pockets, but I think there’s probably some kind of copyright.

Cassy Joy: Oh yeah.

Diane Sanfilippo: On the jingle.

Cassy Joy: Well, I’m glad you qualified that, because I was about to bust it out! {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}

Cassy Joy: Oh man. It is a hot topic. Wouldn’t it be so nice, Diane, if I could just; is this how it works? I decide I want to sell something, as an affiliate, or as a consultant for a company. And, oh look! I already have a social media account, so I’m just going to go ahead and post about it there, and I’m going to be able to sell a bunch of it, right? That’s how it works? {laughs}

Diane Sanfilippo: I think a lot of people might think that. Like your 300 friends and family folks that maybe followed along for all the baby pictures. I’m not talking about Cassy’s, I’m talking about; you know. The everyday person who you’ve connected with everyone that you knew for the last X number of years of your life, right?

Cassy Joy: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Diane Sanfilippo: So we actually had never been on social media in that capacity, I don’t think. Especially not Instagram. When I first started an Instagram account back in 2012, I was already doing work on the internet. So I never actually had that experience of; oh, I joined social media and I’m just a person. I was always sort of a business or a person that was behind a business. I mean, even the account name I had, and that you probably started with originally, was Balanced Bites. Yours was Fed and Fit from the beginning. So really coming at it with that sort of; I’m a person but I run a business perspective.

So today, what we’re going to chat about is; do you to intro it, or do you want me to do it?

Cassy Joy: Yeah. You do it.

Diane Sanfilippo: So we’re going to talk about why you’re not converting; and I think it’s really interesting to talk about sort of these two different types of people who start out on social media. And I think primarily today we’ll probably talk about one type. And then maybe we’ll come back and talk about another. And I know for those of you who maybe have a large following, this isn’t necessarily targeted towards you. But you might have some friends, or peers, or maybe you’re building a business or building a team. Maybe you have a Beautycounter business or some kind of network marketing business, and people join your team and they want to do something with social media.

And I think we’ve got this divide between a person who, for example, has. And we have a lot of listeners who have sent in questions and we go to their account, and this is the type of account it is. It’s a few hundred followers, somewhere between let’s say one and 500, and it’s people that you’ve known. That you are friends with, that you’ve worked with, etc.

And for all intents and purposes, it’s a personal Instagram, let’s just say. Right? It really was never a business. There’s not a look and feel to it. It’s poorly lit, maybe, pictures of food and your kids and whatever it is. It wasn’t curated. It wasn’t filtered. None of that.

And I think what we see happening is; somebody might join a business, like Beautycounter. And for those of you who don’t know, we talk about Beautycounter a lot. Cassy and I are both managing directors with Beautycounter. We run that business in parallel with me running Balanced Bites; with Cassy running Fed and Fit. So it’s something that we have a lot of people we know who listen to this show who are running that business as well.

But you can apply this to really any new small business that you’re running. Maybe you have a personal account, and you have recently gotten health coaching certification. Or maybe you’ve decided you want to offer some kind of service now. But you have this following of 1-500 people who just know you as you. They don’t know you as this business.

So what do you tend to see happening when people kind of hit that point and they’re like; ok, I’m going to start talking about this on my social media. Because why not?

Cassy Joy: Mm-hmm. I find that people, to use; I think it was Gary Vaynerchuk who I first heard this from, was the jab, jab, jab, right hook. But I think that what I see people do immediately who are coming from a personal Instagram account. They join, let’s say, a network marketing company that they want to start selling products. They have a right hook out the gate.

Diane Sanfilippo: Do you want to explain that?

Cassy Joy: Yes. I will. So the concept of jab, jab, jab, right hook, is a jab is a generous give. It’s something that you’re giving to your audience without any strings attached. You’re not asking for anything. There’s no CTA; call to action, necessarily. That would require; there’s no email me, or, if you want this product let me know, or it only cost $20. Whatever it is. You’re just giving generously.

So an example of giving generously, when it comes to safer skincare. Especially in the context of Beautycounter, like Diane said. That’s a great frame of reference for us. Hyaluronic acid. Here’s what I just learned about hyaluronic acid. It’s in skincare products all over the place. It’s on commercials right now, and I just learned that it’s sourced by X, and it’s good to look for Y when you’re buying a hyaluronic acid product, because it means that it’s probably a safer form. Right?

And then that’s it. Then you put the mic down and you walk away. Or you put the keyboard down and you walk away. You don’t say; and, did you know that this new foundation that we have has hyaluronic acid in it. Look how pretty it makes my skin look. I would be happy to help you find a shade if you want. Right? That then takes a give, a jab, and it turns it into a right hook.

A right hook is an ask. And that tempo of three to one; three gives and one ask, is a nice way to allow your audience time to consume and understand and trust you as a resource. And also when you’re ready to offer a right hook, and you’re ready to say; hey, if you’re looking to figure out what one product to switch over first in your skincare routine, I’d be happy to help you. And by then, they’ve seen you give generously. And they’re like; you know what? I think she actually knows what she’s talking about. And it doesn’t seem like she’s just on here to make a quick buck.

Diane Sanfilippo: I love that. I’m a huge fan of that framework, as well. And I think that is something that those of us that did start out from the blogging or content creation world, we learned that lesson the hard way. Because I think a lot of people actually got stuck in a cycle of jabbing, and never right hooking. Never asking for somebody to pay for something. And what I saw happen 5-6 years ago was this real tension and issue around all these bloggers who sudden realized; monetizing what they were doing was so challenging because they had literally spent years stuck in a jab. And they never asked for anything.

So now we have this trend of finally, people who are bloggers; I mean, literally people just hang a shingle; I always use that expression. But you know; put up a sign on Instagram and they’re like; here I am! I sell things! I’m an influencer, I sell things! And you know how I feel about that. I think you earn the ability to influence by building trust, essentially by what you said; by throwing jabs. By actually giving of yourself.

So I think a lot of people who have a personal account. Maybe they don’t have a business at this point. I think they might feel like maybe they have imposter syndrome around the concept of, what do I have to tell people or teach people? And I don’t think it needs to be as complicated as people want to make it.

So what I mean by that is, you’re just a person. People are obsessed with watching other people do whatever it is. We want to know how other people live their lives. It does not matter that you’re not a certified something or other that you show me what you bought at the grocery store this week. Literally; something as simple as what’s in your grocery bag.

My friend Lani, who was an elementary school teacher and now she’s blogging and a food photographer. All this stuff. But she does what’s in my cart every single week. And maybe she’s qualified to do more difficult things, right, and teach deeper content. But people are obsessed with seeing what’s in her grocery cart.

So I think if we understand that other people just want us to share of our lives, whatever it is. You don’t have to be a nutritionist. You don’t have to be any sort of thing. You’re just a person.

Cassy Joy: I was going to say, you don’t have to be a green chemist.

Diane Sanfilippo: Exactly, to share about safe skincare. You can just share what you like, and why it’s working. Whatever it is. Just share your reality. So I love that idea of helping people understand that sharing something. Sharing of your life. Sharing products that you’ve found, whatever it may be. And creating a space where; I know we’ve talked about this in the past on previous social media episodes. But creating a space in your social media where you become a resource and a go-to for something. And this does require you to shift your mindset from, “I’m just a person posting to my friends” to, “I’m going to dig in and have some confidence around the fact that I have been looking for safer products.” You are totally welcome to say, “Hey, I haven’t made a switch with everything I have in my house. Maybe my dish soap I’ve switched over. I’m still looking for a laundry detergent that I love. Do you have recommendations?”

But just kind of sharing your life and the journey is really helpful for people. And kind of moving along away from this mindset of, “I’m not a business, I’m just a person.” To, “Ok, if I want to use what I have here on social media, and I have some goals to actually sell a product somewhere in there, being more intentional and strategic is actually the way to not be salesy.”

Cassy Joy: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Diane Sanfilippo: And when we say that, that doesn’t mean you have a 30-day plan, and you post three times a day. When I say strategic, I mean strategic in terms of what Cassy is saying. That you’re like; when in doubt, what can I share? What can I educate around? If I don’t know what to post today, I’m not going to ask someone to buy something today. If I don’t know what I have to say, if it’s not super intentional, then just talk generously. Maybe you talk about the straws that you’re using instead of plastic straws. Little things around the house.

I don’t know, whatever it is that somebody is interested in. Maybe you talk about other accounts that you follow that are, “hey, have you guys followed…?” I love following the Holistic Psychologist. And just share something. So providing some kind of value so there’s a reason why people are following you, and they’re getting information, either directly or indirectly related to the topic.

3. The “soft” right hook [21:22]

Diane Sanfilippo: The other thing I think can be really helpful, and you kind of alluded to this. Talking about, for example, educating around an ingredient. There’s a concept of the full-on right hook. Where it’s like; ok, I’m obviously asking people to buy something in a post. But I think there’s also an interesting concept of a soft right hook, where it’s something when you post educational content, you are giving. But you’re actually also opening a door for people to ask more questions. And somebody asking a question of you is actually them paying attention to what you’re doing and dropping a comment is sort of them buying something.

Cassy Joy: It is. They’re engaging with you.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. That engagement is a payment. I consider that engagement a payment. Which I why I ask people not to DM me. I’m like; can you just have this question publicly? Because we’re probably not talking about deep rooted family trauma. You’re probably asking about a pan, and we could have that conversation publicly, so other people can benefit from it. And also then Instagram will see that as engagement. It’s actually a conversation on the post.

So, I just kind of wanted to draw this delineation between; if you’re somebody who, you have an Instagram account, and it’s kind of the smaller following. And maybe you did recently convert it to something that looks more polished. Maybe you changed the name recently. But when you started it originally, it was a personal account, and you’re still growing it, and it’s still pretty small. And you’re not feeling like you’re sure of what you do. Because you didn’t start it as a business with a specific focus, which we talked about last week.

There is always still room to establish some strategy and some thought behind the way that you share different things, and then eventually also over time kind of get better and better at; not curating to make things perfect, but being more intentional around taking a photo in better light. Doing things that will make the posts that you share a little more polished. Not perfect, but a little more polished, so that people start to take what you’re doing more seriously. Because I just think there is a divide.

Cassy Joy: Mm-hmm.

Diane Sanfilippo: And if you do want to get to a place where you feel less salesy, then you have to bring something to the table to help people and educate people, inspire them in some way other than, every day. Listen. Pictures of your kids are great. But every day a picture of your kid isn’t teaching something, unless you’re also writing something in the captions. Which we’ve talked about before. And you are teaching something, or sharing a moment, or giving something. Does that make sense?

Cassy Joy: It does make sense. You know, speaking of kids. To put that in context. There’s an account I follow called Busy Toddler that I love. It’s a fabulous account if you have little ones at home for how to keep your children busy and engaged, away from electronics, if you’re looking for some electronic breaks. And you pull up her feed, and it’s a bunch of photos of her children. But to Diane’s point, in the caption she’s teaching you something. She’s teaching you lessons learned.

And I think the reason you’re not converting on social media is because you’re not actually being honest about the lessons you’ve learned along the way. Because it can be a little scary sometimes, because social media; it can feel like significant glass to break to really get into this routine of sharing your lessons learned. But I think that once you humble yourself, and you admit publicly that you’re not perfect and you don’t have it all right and not all perfect. Like Diane said; I haven’t switched everything over in my house yet; what suggestions do you have for a dishwashing soap? Right? I think that you are able to really help your audience understand that you’re really there to genuinely give and receive and build a community.

And while you were talking, Diane, about what you could share, maybe evolving your previously personal account into something more of a business, that you’re treating like more of a business, you can honestly really think of yourself the way we used to think of blogs, 5 to 7 years ago. What was a blog? It was people sharing of their lives. It wasn’t necessarily just coming up with recipes that people are Googling right now. It had nothing to do with that. It was folks sharing of their lives, lessons learned, trials and tribulations, favorite products. That is, if you’re looking to build a bridge between a personal Instagram account that also does eventually convert, then I think thinking of it in that way is a way to go. Think about your posts as a blog; it doesn’t have to be long. But something where you’re able to share something in that regard.

And I think another reason, like you said, you’re not converting on social media is because you’re coming across as salesy because you haven’t done the work to bridge the gap between your personal content and something that you’re monetizing. And that also could be; I want to throw this out there just to call it out directly. You’re posting family photos, which is great. Or photos of your life. And then you’re splicing in a graphic that you downloaded from the internet to promote a product. And it’s a photo you did not take.

Again, that’s an inconsistent reader experience. You have not done the work to weave those two together, to take the product photo yourself, for example. You’re posting a graphic or something of the sort, and that comes across as very salesy, and very punchy, right hook, and not in a great way.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think; I forget the expression you used, about, did you say breaking the glass? What did you say?

Cassy Joy: Mm-hmm. Yes. I think I did.

Diane Sanfilippo: Is that like a fourth wall thing?

Cassy Joy: Yeah. Break the ice. I think that’s what I meant {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: No, I don’t know. I’m not saying you said anything that wasn’t accurate. I just didn’t know if you had a new; listen. You’re from Texas. And sometimes there are different expressions that I don’t know.

Cassy Joy: We have a lot of expressions, but I think I really meant to say break the ice. {laughing}

Diane Sanfilippo: Well I think that’s a great point. Because I feel like what happens is, people want their cake and they want to eat it too. They want to keep things private, and they want to sell. And I’m like, you have to actually understand that; yes, we sell by; hey Cassy, I love that sweatshirt, where did you get it? We sell that way, but not much, you know. And it’s not intentional. We sell by recommending things.

But if you want to be intentional about it and actually grow a business, you have to put the entrepreneur cap on. You have to decidedly say; ok. I’m going to build from the 250 people I’ve known throughout my life. And I’m going to take the steps to say; you know what? It’s ok if I want to talk about Beautycounter at some point. Or some product, or this oil, or whatever it is. But I can’t just, like you said, pop a graphic in there. Here’s the strategy part. I need to be intentional about sharing parts of my life really authentically. Like; hey, I’ve been making my own nontoxic safer counter wiping solution.

Literally, could I be less domestic? What am I saying? Countertop cleaner? What do you call it?

Cassy Joy: Sure.

Diane Sanfilippo: When you don’t call it by a brand name, what do you call it? Anyway. When you talk about it; and I kind of wrote this note down to piggyback on the jab, jab, jab, right hook idea. You could share about this topic of creating your own, making this cleaner at home. Making more of your products yourself. You could share about that once a week for three weeks. And then finally, there’s a post where you actually tell people; oh, by the way. I work with this company, and if you’re curious about it, this is what I’ve been talking about.

You basically plant the seed, which I think we’ve talked about in previous episodes. But I think it would help people to understand that you have to remember that the people you’re talking to are just normal people who don’t want to be blindsided by being presented by something to buy. It’s a relationship that you’re nurturing.

So, do you want someone one day to just be posting their kids, and the next day; and I don’t mean to just lean on that. Maybe they’re posting; they went keto and they’re posting food photos for 6 months. And now suddenly, they’re selling another product. Whatever it is. You don’t want someone to blindside you trying to sell something. But you would be interested because you follow them because you know them, you like them, for whatever reason. You are interested in their life.

So, if you as the person with the account is like; ok, I’m going to start sharing this stuff I do in my life. And then eventually I’m going to say; oh, and here’s the one product. You just have to ease into it. You kind of have to court the relationship. And you have to be dating before you go to take that next step. And having that mindset and understanding that it does take patient, it does take time. We can’t expect people to day one, just because we love something and started talking about it, decide they want to buy it. And even if they really could use it, and you know they would love it.

And that’s the same if you, again, maybe you just became a health coach and you offer coaching services, and you’re like; ugh, I know my aunt would really do well with this. But she was just here to see pictures of my kid. And it’s going to take her like one to two years to believe you. With all the stuff you’re talking about on social media, and maybe you drop little tidbits about different nutrition things here and there. It takes time. It takes time to really build that trust, build that relationship, around this new topic.

Cassy Joy: I want to piggyback off of something you just said.

Diane Sanfilippo: Do it.

Cassy Joy: I’m sorry to interrupt you. But I think another reason why you are also not selling and converting on social media is kind of the other side of this coin. You never ask. You don’t actually ever tell people what your work is, and you don’t state it very clearly and directly of how they can support you or how you can engage with them as a service provider; as a consultant in the reference that we keep using. And it’s important that you very clearly state, “I am,” for example, “a safer skincare consultant. And it brings me so much joy to help you find the right products for your skin. Because I’ve spent a lot of time kissing a lot of frogs, and I’m here to help. I want you to email me. That’s not a joke.” Right? So you do that.

Another reason you’re probably not converting; because let’s say you put that out there. You’re like; oh my gosh, Cassy and Diane. I do all the things. I elevated my photos. I’ve studied jab, jab, jab, right hook. I give, give, give, give. And I offer. I feel like I word everything right. I run it all by my mentor. I don’t understand what’s going on!

It could also be that, like Diane is saying; it takes a long time to build this trust with people. And I have a secret for you; you can actually speed up the trust process by engaging and honoring those relationships more directly. A way to do that is if you notice, you’re observing. You have 200 people that follow you on Instagram, for example. And there are a handful of people who like a post or comment, “so pretty,” whatever it is. A hearty eyes smiley face every time you post something beauty related. It’s ok to go on the offense and send them a DM, and say, “Thank you so much for always supporting my posts. It means a lot. And if there’s ever anything I can do for you, or if you ever have any questions, please let me know.”

Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.

Cassy Joy: Right? It’s ok to engage in and build that relationship in a very proactive way.

Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Why people aren’t converting; coming back to this kind of theme of, I think it comes down to the mindset. And really shifting the focus from; “well I have these people that follow me, they’re my friends,” Whatever, to “I want to be more intentional. I want to do the work to educate people. I want to actually do something with this account.” And understanding that; no, you don’t have to go from today to tomorrow where suddenly you’re a fulltime blogger. It doesn’t have to be that. But we do have to bridge the gap. We do have to take you to a place where you’re realizing that, if you want to actually sell something or use your account for a business, you have to start thinking like you’re running a business. And be strategic and intentional about what you’re doing.

4. Listener Question: Balancing feed with stories [34:18]

Cassy Joy: We have a related listener question, so Real Talk with Regina asks; “This is me having the courage to ask a question.” Hat tip to you, Regina. “So, I’m building an online business that will help women find the courage to speak boldly about areas that they have been silent about. It’s what I do offline, and am wanting to do to serve more women, and monetize it, too. I have been told that I share a lot in my stories, which comes a lot more easily to me. It’s so much fun. But there’s a disconnect between my stories and my feed. I have a tough time posting in my feed. Frequency, captions, length; it’s work.

Another thing is I already feel attached my phone and Instagram, and I lose hours. And I have a lot of interests, and I don’t know how to time my feed to all the things I can highlight and keep from my stories. I need help connecting the two; thanks in advance. Love to you both. P.S.: I’m grateful for how you’ve both handled loving your Beautycounter teams during these difficult, especially racially tense times.”

Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, Regina. So, for those of you listening; I know Regina, personally. So I’m going to answer this question, and hopefully this will help everyone out a bit.

I’ve heard this a few times from people; interestingly, a lot of people actually have more trouble posting to stories, because its’ video and it feels a little more personal, and maybe for some people, intrusive. But I think there are a few things you can do to get your feed to be a place that people know what’s going on.

Because here’s the reality; gaining new followers is often going to happen when people land on; maybe they find a story through a hashtag or one of your other posts through a hashtag, or somebody tags you. Any of the above reasons.

But someone will come to your page and go look at your feed, and see, “What is this person about? Do I want to follow them? Is this content that I want to get?” Most people will probably not watch a whole bunch of your highlights before deciding whether or not to follow. Because that’s probably going to take a lot more time. They’re probably just going to look at the feed; what kind of content am I getting here? Do I want to follow? Ok?

So, because you post to stories a lot, I’m just going to give you a couple of tips of ways that you can simplify what you’re doing. First and foremost, let’s say you’re posting about a certain topic one day. I love the idea of snapping a photo, whatever it’s going to be. Maybe it’s a selfie, maybe it’s a photo of your desk. Regina, I know sometimes posts about things that you’re reading or plants. You’re posting about a lot of things in your life. Snap a photo. If you need to get some presets, some filters that you’re using, so that they can always look a certain way, I think there’s nothing wrong with that. Especially when you’re getting used to getting better at taking photos that you think always look great. I think using a filter can be helpful.

I like the idea of anchoring back in your feed immediately following a story series. Posting something in your feed that says; “XYZ.” You basically say the same thing that you said in your story. And then you can also say, “I talked about this in my stories in a little more depth today.” Or, “If you want to hear me speak about it,” etc., etc.

What I like about this is; one, it anchors the content. Meaning, you actually have it set there. It’s steady, it’s there whenever somebody wants to go back and look at it. I am finding lately that I have a lot of people who will watch my stories, and then the content disappears, right? And for me personally, I don’t like to do a lot of engagement, at this moment, that will change at some point, through DMs. It’s just not for me. It’s not what I feel best with. I feel like things are going really well not doing that.

But people also want to have a place to talk about that topic that I was talking about that day. Maybe it’s a question about how I make my coffee. Maybe it’s a question about one of the products that I’ve talked about. Maybe it’s a question about the walks that I go on. Any type of question about something that I’ve shared about. If I have a post in my feed, people know where there’s a contextual place to come ask that question. I think that really helps. And it also helps to jog their memory of the thing that you were talking about last week.

Because people don’t always pay full, undivided attention to the thing you were talking about in your stories. But if you’ve got a post in your feed about this important topic that you were just talking about in your stories, that you felt was really meaningful and important, I think having that anchor is really helpful. You could also say, if you do save it as a highlight, and you have that post that goes into your feed, you could say, “Check out the highlight that I’ve got. It’s called this; you’ll hear me talk about it.” So I think that’s really helpful.

And we’ve talked about this before with what to put in your feed, but you could pick anywhere from three to five to seven different types of topics that you’re always going to talk about. And just cycle through them. Maybe you’ve got five things that you tend to talk about. Maybe it’s; so for Regina in particular, Real Talk with Regina is her account. She talks about having been a widow at one point, and remarrying. I know she talks about Beautycounter. She talks about faith. In her stories, at least, she talks about plant ownership. I’ve seen you trying to revive an orchid; more power to you, Regina. I don’t know how to take care of an orchid.

So, you could come up with five different topic categories, and just consistently rotate through those. And get a photo, and just put it in your feed. I think, don’t be so concerned about having the photo be perfect. Your photos will continue to get better over time. But having a way for people to know who you are and what you’re all about, it’s so important.

The expiring content is just that. It’s expiring. And so it’s great that you share there; it’s great that you connect through video and voice and all of that. But people really do need to get a feel for who you are on your feed.

And I just want to instill a little bit of confidence here; what you say and the type of content you share in your stories is so powerful, it’s so thoughtful, you don’t need to duplicate anything. You can share the same content. Just in a slightly different format. Slightly more abbreviated, get the caption, pop it in the feed.  Do it right after you do it to stories. That’s just; my favorite thing to recommend.

So, I’ve done this a bunch. I mean; listen, a much less, perhaps heavy, topic, but even just; I’ll put my protein prep in my stories, right? Then I snap a photo, and I pop it in my feed and I’m like; here’s what I was prepping today. If you want to see the step-by-step, it’s in my stories. And some of it will be saved to my highlights. No big deal.

So I would just try not to overthink it. If you don’t know frequency; I think posting once a day to your feed is a valid frequency. I don’t think you need to do it more often than that. I think if it’s less often than that; you don’t want a post that’s more than 3 days old to be your last post. Unless there’s a real reason. If you’re trying to build a business. I think if people haven’t seen a post for a week, and they go to your most recent post and it says it’s 7 days old, I think they’re going to assume that you’re not a serious person. You’re not going to be posting regularly. They don’t know what they’re getting.

Then, captions and length; I just would not stress about it. Write what you think is valid for someone to know, and move on. I think that hashtags that you already know and love and use in stories, use them in your feed. It is work. Going back to the question; it says, “It’s work.” And spending time; spending time on social media is totally valid, if you’re being intentional with it. So what I would say is, when you make a post, perhaps make an effort to at least hang there for a few minutes, see if anybody is going to like it or comment on it. Thank them for the like; especially respond back to a comment.

But spend just a couple of minutes and just set an alarm on your phone. I mean, this is like; I do this in the gym. If I’m between sets, and I’m trying to lift weights, I have to set an alarm so I don’t get down the Instagram rabbit hole. Set an alarm. Spend a few minutes. Go engage with some other similar accounts, and just drop comments that are thoughtful, that you’re engaging with their posts, and spend time doing that. Then you won’t need to worry so much about where you’re going to be going on social media. Be really intentional about the way you spend time there.

So having a lot of interests and all of that is totally fine; narrow it down. Pick your categories. And I know Regina likes to plan, so make a plan. Here’s the 5 categories that I post about. Maybe it’s like spiritual, emotional, physical health; whatever categories you want to break it down to. And then just jot something down that you might want to share. Or, in the moment, each day as you’re sharing, figure out where it fits into those categories so you can start even just filling it out as the days go by. Even if you don’t plan it ahead. I don’t know which way feels better for you.

But I think that’s a great way to make sure that your feed is getting content that relates to or is inspired by what you’re already talking about. You don’t need to reinvent the wheel. Just document what it is that you’re doing. It will resonate with people; I promise.

5. Tip of The Week: Share your life [43:46]

Cassy Joy: Tip of The Week! In this segment, we give you one tip that you can take action on this week to move your business or life forward.

Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. My tip of the week; I think we have talked about this in past episodes on social media. But I don’t remember exactly. I want to encourage everyone who has this one type of account where you’re trying to convert it over to a little bit more of something that’s business oriented. You know; maybe you’re trying to sell something. That’s what we say, converting on social media. That means taking someone from being a follower to someone who actually; first of all, either engages. Right? That’s a type of “payment.” Or who actually buys something. Whether it’s a product or a service that you have to offer.

If you are stuck in this quicksand of, “What do I create? What is the content I should create?” Flip the script, and move to documenting. That’s what I really do, I would say, 90% of the time. I don’t focus on planning out content like; oh, tomorrow I’ll do this. And the next day I’ll do this. No. I’m consistent with what I share, because what I share is just what my life is. I’m doing my protein prep, so I share it. So I don’t create that content. I don’t put it on the calendar; ok, Tuesday you’re going to make this. I’m just going to do it, and I will document along the way. And by virtue of just documenting, you are creating. I think that will give you a little bit of flexibility and freedom to say; well, this is what I’m doing today so I’m going to share of that. I don’t need to be super stressed out about all the little details in between.

Maybe here I am brushing my teeth with this new toothpaste that I love, and I want to share it with people. Just share little bits of your life. We all love to see what other people are doing. Hopefully that is helpful.

That’s it for Driven this week. If you liked this episode, be sure to subscribe in Apple podcast, on Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @TheDrivenPodcast. Cassy is @CassyJoyGarcia as well as @FedandFit and I am @DianeSanfilippo as well as @BalancedBites.

Tune in next week for another brand-new episode. We’ll see you then.